BioWare's Brianne Battye Answers our Silliest Questions (and Some Serious Ones Too)!

As most of us Dragon Age fans already know, Brianne Battye is a talented writer at BioWare who contributed her talents to Dragon Age Inquisition, Tevinter Nights, and who is also a poet in her own right.

Here, to celebrate #DragonAgeDay, she's provided us with an inside look at her own answers to our silliest (and not quite silliest) questions for 2020!

Here goes!

So, Brianne! Warden, Hawke, or Inky – which are you, at heart?

BRIANNE: Hawke. Mostly Purple Hawke.

You wake up with the Anchor/Mark. What do you do?

1. Panic.

2. Poke at it.

3. Panic.

Which demon would show up to tempt you at your personal Harrowing?

Have we seen an Anxiety demon? It would be an Anxiety demon.

I feel this on a very personal level. If there was a 2020 demon, it would totally be Anxiety, right?

Onward!

You get beamed to Thedas: What’s your job and would you survive?

Could I still be a writer? Maybe Varric could introduce me to his publisher. I hope I’d survive, but this IS Thedas.

Favorite Dragon Age herb or plant?

Dawn lotus. They look like lily pads and I love lily pads.

Which quarters at Skyhold would YOU pick for yourself?

I mean, there’s a lot of spare rooms so probably a room no one’s using. If it’s out of the follower, advisor, or Inquisitor rooms… Leliana’s space. It’s quiet, not too bright, has a proper roof. I’d make friends with the messenger birds.

What's your favorite Dragon Age creature?

Definitely fennecs! I would love a fennec friend.

Favorite Inquisitor mount?

All of the harts!

What are your feelings on Plaidweave?

Okay, I’m one of those Canadians with five different button-down plaid shirts in her closet. So, it’s all good.

What’s your favorite book?

It changes depending on when you ask me. A book I read this year and loved: This is How You Lose the Time War, by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone.

What’s your favorite movie?

Like books, this answer changes when you ask me, but a lot of the time it’s Howl’s Moving Castle.

What part of your work is most challenging or satisfying for you?

I love writing and creating stories, but work isn’t always easy. There have been a lot of challenging and stressful times over the years. When I’ve heard from people that something I helped create meant something to them—something serious or something that just made them smile—I can’t express how much that means to me.

Which Dragon Age team members did you always want to call out as deserving of special praise?

Our transfer to Work From Home was very abrupt. Everyone working on IT support has done an incredible job getting the team set-up and (virtually) coming to the rescue when issues arise. I also want to call out our Facilities team who helped coordinate our transfer to Work From Home and who continue to arrange virtual events to help people feel connected.

Thank you so much, Brianne! And happy DRAGON AGE DAY!

 

Chatting with the Weekeses, Part 3: Romances, Life in Thedas, and Talkative Felines

Hello, all!

Karin Weekes (right), and my inadvertent third
 interview participant, Smokey Weekes (left). Who
I can attest has a very fine, melodious mew.

Apologies for the delay, but finally—disgracefully late—I've moved forward with a further installment of my in-depth conversation with Patrick Weekes and Karin Weekes, originally a part of our celebrations of Dragon Age Day 2019, from last December, thanks to them (and the BioWare team) providing us with an incredible amount of time and access.

As you know, I interviewed the dynamic duo just before Dragon Age Day 2019 (and it was everything I hoped it could be). You can read Part 1 here, or Part 2 here.

A New World

But goodness, has the world changed since I posted that last interview, or what?! I mean, pandemics. Face masks. Social isolation. Scary economies. So much is crazy (Hey, where's Loghain?! Or surely Corypants is behind this?!). 

I mean, I'd probably be looking for a Breach in the sky... If I could see the sky right now.

Sigh. Or, hey, let's go with a Cassandra-noise.

So, oof.

Here There Be Dragons

What a terrifying and strange world we're finding ourselves in. And it is sadly not fictional and all too real. They're certainly times that require fortitude, courage, and also, for me, essential trust in science, medicine, and fact. It's been challenging for me, especially as someone who already navigates the world at an anxiety level of 11 (fellow anxiety sufferers, I know you feel my pain!). 

But also, I believe, these times require faith in less tangible things, too—like magic, joy, and imagination (and faith or belief, if those are part of your life). Those things are soul-sustenance when times are tough. Art feeds us, makes the walls of our quarantines disappear, brings us infinite horizons, and helps us to escape grief and fear, too. I'm grateful that so many stories, books, shows, and games do that for me—Dragon Age, first and foremost.

Which brings me back to this interview, a privilege that gave me the chance to talk to two of my favorite artists in the Dragon Age world, who are also openly really good, kind people who have remained accessible to the fandom despite the occasional toxicity and backlash that comes with that openness and transparency.

Emerging from the Deep Roads

So, this interview gave me so much joy—both at the time, of course, just before Dragon Age Day (I was euphoric for a week, seriously)... but even more again, recently, returning to that conversation in a changed world after over three months in which I'd been dealing with a lot of life and work turmoil. It was a lovely surprise to return to this conversation only to realize that it was exactly what I needed right now—a lovely, supportive talk with two very smart, talented and creative artists who helped to build one of the fictional worlds I love more than anything in the world—and it was also a welcome escape in this time of strangeness and uncertainty. 

I just hope that it provides you with a similar escape in these crazy times.

So onward, intrepid Companions! Part 3 follows below... and it was just as much fun as it sounds. There will be one final (extra-fabulous) piece to follow this one, a lightning-round on Patrick and Karin's responses to an assortment of silly questions from me (and you won't want to miss it—it's so much fun).

Here we go...

Karin and Patrick deftly taking the spotlight away from the Inky (Varric
looks ambivalent...)

Patrick, I know from legend and lore that David Gaider was actually the one who suggested that Solas be romanceable... is that right? 

PATRICK: So... Dave denies this... 

Laughter.

PATRICK: But Dave also has an interesting memory that many people—not just me—have compared to a goldfish. Because yes, then David will blame me for the romance when I distinctly recall him saying—

Here's what happened. I said, "Okay, other people are putting in flirts for their characters. What should I do with that?" 

And he went, "Sure! Put in a flirt or two. Or do a little romance!" And I went, "Uh, okay!" and put in... something... 

And then the group at large went, "Well, that's not enough—if you're putting in that, you need to have more of a real romance!" 

KARIN: I just have to say, in Dave's defense, Patrick does not do 'a little' when it comes to anything. That gauntlet has been laid down.

PATRICK (teasing): Hey, when you let the Fey into your house... you make decisions...

KARIN: I'm just saying!

PATRICK: So... perhaps... if Dave didn't understand what he was doing by saying, "Sure, you can have a little romance," then Dave learned a valuable lesson.

KARIN (laughing): It was a definite learning moment, wasn't it?

Patrick, have you been surprised at the intense reactions of fans? Of course, I'm also speaking here for Solasmancers and inhabitants of Solavellan Hell... but were you surprised at the level of emotion that people have invested in Solas as a character and romance? 

PATRICK: I was. I think it's very easy for all writers, or rather, it was easy for me... to forget that every romance is some player's first romance. Because at the time, once Dave agreed that Solas was going to be a full-ish romance... 

KARIN (laughing): Or, um, reluctantly accepted...

PATRICK: Then, you know, the question became, "What flavor is it?" because we wanted to make sure the romances have different flavors... so Bull was a little bit more "50 Shades of Bull," and Josephine was very consciously, you know, romancing a Disney princess... 

Right.

Their cat (whom Karin later informs me is Smokey) meows again loudly. The cat is not only revealed to be insanely cute, but also, obviously gives itself away here as a Josie romance fan.

PATRICK: Josie's is very cute, very sweet, very wholesome. But on Solas, I said, "Well, I kind of want to do—I want to do star-crossed lovers. I want to do that combined with, like... Okay, so, Phantom of the Opera is not my favorite musical, but I do kind of get the whole, "We mustn't!" "We must!" thing...

Er... Yeah, I'm a sucker for it.

PATRICK: There's that kind of tragic 'emotions worn on the sleeve' nature to it. So I said, "Okay, I'm just gonna do something like that." And I went off and wrote it, and... kind of when I wrote it, I went, "I'm gonna make it fairly clear that pretty much every time you take a step forward with Solas, he's going to tell you—"

"We shouldn't!"

I basically say it at the same time as Patrick, which is awesome. Laughter from all of us.

PATRICK (dramatically): "We shouldn't do this! We mustn't! The consequences will be horrible! It can only lead to pain!"

You say that like it's a bad thing.

(More laughter)

PATRICK: But so... in my mind, if you say yes anyway, then yeah, you're going to take that next step to... 

Pain! A world of pain!

PATRICK (laughing): But see, again, in my mind, at the time, I was thinking that I was being pretty straightforward about that. I'm thinking, well, I think that the people who get that, who take that option to move forward, are going to be the ones who absolutely wanted the 'star-crossed lovers'/Phantom of the Opera-style 'Rose and the Doctor'-style romance. 

Here, honestly, I admit it, I make another 'oof' sound, as if I'm Cassandra Pentaghast at a really heartbreaking moment of Swords & Shields. I was a pretty big Phantom fan (flaws and all) in college, and once took a Greyhound bus 24 hours from Tallahassee, Florida to NYC to see it on Broadway the year it opened—but I'm an even bigger Rose and Ten shipper, so this is all catnip to me in the best, most embarrassing way. And so much fun.

Karin and Patrick laugh (but kindly) at my mortification.

PATRICK: And so... like I said, it's very easy for ME from the perspective of "person who knows how everything is going to go," to have that perspective as the person who wrote it in their thirties, having seen Phantom of the Opera, and Rose and the Doctor, and every other tragic, star-crossed, age difference-type of romance that "can't possibly be, but is nevertheless..."

Smokey Weekes meows again, insistently.

PATRICK: But having done all that, and having forgotten that playing this game, like I said, for many, this was their first-time encounter with that kind of a romance...

Yeah, but also, I still think it caught even more people unaware who may have been experienced gamers or more jaded, too. Like, I think for a lot of us, we just thought we could change him, dammit!

Laughter.

Wait, wait, not change him, seriously—I should clarify. I never wanted to change Solas, just his goals. Meaning, rather—just... to persuade him away from this one specific goal that's tearing him apart.

Allegra Clark (Voice actress for Josephine),
adorably demonstrating Josie's immortal
leg-pop to celebrate Dragon Age Day.
Photo courtesy of Allegra Clark.

PATRICK: Yeah. So yes, it was a surprise to me, the reaction and emotion of many responses. Like I said, we do the best we can, and we see what sticks and what doesn't... and what people really, really emotionally engage with... and what resonates with folks. 

And well, I was pleasantly surprised that people were that taken with it, you know... And that meant a lot to me because for one thing, it's a very mental romance as opposed to a physical one.

Yes. And if people react that strongly, you did something right. I mean, that's the whole point. That the players felt something.

PATRICK (chuckling): Not something good, but something right.

Well, you know, just speaking for myself, I mean, I went back and played every single choice in the breakup scene just to make sure I wasn't missing something. I was just going, "Wait a minute! Obviously I'm doing this wrong!" 

And then I shut the game down and called my best friend about the fact that I had now reached the lowest point of my life—that even my digital boyfriends were dumping me, so, you know, not that I'm blaming you or anything, but... 

Karin and Patrick laugh, and I contemplate my life choices.

I got over it eventually! (No, I didn't...) Although, yeah, I'm staring into the middle distance even as I say this... 

Karin and Patrick are still laughing, which is the best thing ever right now.

PATRICK: Um...

Oh, Solas, stop looking at me like that. STAHP.

But really—it's so much fun. And I really just do love how big, emotional and operatic it is, and how, you know... Trevor Morris was NOT HELPFUL. Because then we get to "Trespasser," and our little hearts are all stomped as it is, and that music comes up and it's just over. I mean, ouch. 

KARIN: Trevor is really, really good at what he does.

He really is.

I mentally return (with an effort) from my tearful "Trespasser" "Lost Elf Theme" reveries.

Meanwhile... speaking of which, I did want to ask you both—as closely involved as you both have been, especially in Inquisition, are you able to kind of distance yourselves enough to enjoy the game as a game? And if so, are there things that even you will not allow yourself as a player to ever do in the game?

KARIN: It gets hard, because like Patrick was talking about earlier, once the dialogue writing and other writing and all of that is done... then the writers sort of move into play testing mode, because they're the ones who will know if something is broken, if something isn't firing the way it should, if something isn't working the way it's supposed to work... 

So we have these charts we put together of who's doing what kind of playthrough, and which choices... so, for instance, for one playthrough I'll be going, "I will do the female Qunari Inquisitor..."

What a shock!

PATRICK (laughing): No kidding.

KARIN: So I'll be like, "Okay, so I'll romance this person, kill that person, and then do this or do that..." So, for me, that is the time when I try to do the things that I don't want to do in my "IRL" playthrough... 

PATRICK: The home one...

KARIN: Yeah.

PATRICK: Yeah, it's funny because I can still enjoy playing Inquisition at home, and hitting, like, a moment and going, "Oh, I'm not sure I've heard that before!" or, on the other hand, "Oh, I remember that line! Man, Sylvia (Fekekutuky) had so much fun writing that line!" And oh, God, I love—I love Sera's random lines. 

But I'd say that... a difference is that, like Karin said, when we have to do these playthroughs, we have to do playthroughs that involve making these choices we would never have made...

Smokey, the Weekes kitty, speaks loudly again. As it does.

... and eventually, in those playthroughs as writers, we'd get into a kind of gallows humor situation about it, we get into what out of context would sound very, very harsh—as if we hate the characters or don't care about them—but it's because we're in this mode where we're testing, and...

KARIN: Honestly, you just kind of have to play yourself at that point. You've been so emotionally engaged that you have to pull yourself out of it, to not get totally overwhelmed...

PATRICK: I had a playthrough—one of my last playthroughs before the game came out, and before my "for reals" home playthrough—was, I called her the "Assquisitor," and I was just making every loathsome choice just to make sure stuff worked, and I did find a few bugs. So it was worth it. 

And it was funny, because the writers were laughing with me 95% of the time, and I'd be like, "Yep! Got the Chargers killed! And now there's nobody for Bull to care about but ME!" 

He laughs. It's a pretty good Evil Villain laugh. Meanwhile, I make an involuntary 'ow' noise.

PATRICK: But one thing... I remember that Brianne (Battye), who sat fairly close to me in the writer pit, was laughing along with me on all this stuff, and then the one day, I was, like, "Yeah, Cullen seemed pretty grumpy, but it's okay, I got him back on the sauce..." and Brianne just went, very coldly... "Wow." 

Laughter from all.

PATRICK: Like, there it was. That was the "too far for Brianne" moment.

KARIN: Everyone has those moments. 

And what's great is that they're all different. Like, we have a pretty wide spectrum of people here. And one of the most interesting things I've learned from that is that we all have this inherent "the way I play games is the way games should be played" mindset—then realizing how many different kinds of people and preferences there are, and that, yes, there are people who would super-enjoy this or that playthrough, and who would do that. Or who, you know, might do it for funsies, and it's good if it works... 

And we do run a pretty wide spectrum of people who enjoy, you know, various choices that I would personally find distasteful, because, like, my personal preferences would be different.... I've already talked about my love of axes and things, but I am also a giant sucker who wants to save everyone and have everyone be a big happy paragon by the end.

I'm a Paragon baseline. It's so hard for me to do anything else...

PATRICK: And I think most of us are... which is why those series of playthroughs sometimes became such a 'dark humor' time for the writers' pit.

KARIN: Yeah. And—and yet—not always necessarily though. Sure, it makes us play a lot of choices that are different than you would or I would...

PATRICK: That's true...

KARIN: As with my "Courtney Woods, we haven't talked about it" approaches (and who is, by the way, partially responsible for making the Nug King happen)... 

Oh, that's genius! I love the Nug King so much.

KARIN: So... yeah.

I just can't throw anybody out. That's my thing, because I'm such a big fan of the 'found family' aspect. I can't throw Sera out. I can't make Cole leave...

KARIN: Nope.

Or anyone, honestly. I can't do it. I can't send Dorian away.

KARIN: No, those are tough.

Meanwhile, I wanted to ask you about inclusivity, because it's such a huge and amazingly wonderful thing throughout Dragon Age. From Day One, you guys have been consistently inclusive, from gay, bi, ace, to trans characters, Bull's BDSM romance in Inquisition, which was so respectfully handled... so many others... 

I was wondering, moving forward, is there a chance, whether it's in written form on the page, or um, I'm not speaking in terms of any potential development in game form in the future, I mean... (coughs)

They humor me but of course, do not answer.

But just in a general sense, is there a chance that we might experience trans, nonbinary or even poly romances in the future?

PATRICK: Um...

KARIN (brightly, laughing): There's always a chance!

PATRICK: I would say that, to answer in parts...  for things like trans, nonbinary and—I'd also throw out ace—

Yes, of course...

PATRICK: Each of those is specifically just a question of, "Is there a writer on the team who is passionate about tackling this issue? And to the point where they are prepared to be—not a leader in the sense that they get to tell everyone what to do—but a leader in the sense of, they're going to be the one who goes to other departments and says, "Okay, this character is ace, here's what that means in this cutscene...?" Those are the big questions.

Yeah.

PATRICK: Or "Okay, this character is trans, here's how we have to handle their VO casting..." 

Right.

PATRICK: So, it's a question of... yes, we would absolutely support that. But also knowing, each time we take steps forward, that is almost always driven by, like I said—a writer who is prepared to make that one of the things that they spend a lot of extra effort on, because it is something that the company has not done before.

You know, at this point, I would say—a new romance is—while still something that takes us extra time, and still something we look at carefully to make sure that we are avoiding specifically harmful tropes—

The Weekes's kitty meows again. It evidently has opinions about the Dragon Age writing team and romances and is obviously, like me, in favor of as many as possible.

PATRICK (mock-sternly): Hi, 'The Cat'... (to me) Yes, that's our cat Smokey on the microphone...

We all laugh. Within a few minutes, Patrick e-mails me the picture of Smokey snuggling on Karin's shoulder.

PATRICK: But, um, at this point, you know, that is something that we just assume we're going to do. That if one of our games has romances in it, it's going to have gay romances in it...  

Right. In the best way.

KARIN: Gay and bi romances... 

PATRICK: Right. Now, in talking about the trans and nonbinary content, that's something where someone would have to be ready to help the company take those steps. 

Karin sneezes politely.

KARIN: Sorry, I didn't realize that was going to be so loud.

I laugh, because, seriously, it's the politest, smallest sneeze ever. Meanwhile, as someone still struggling with the [regular old] flu, I've sneezed and coughed my way through this entire interview like Typhoid Mary...

PATRICK: Now, the last one—

KARIN: Wait, I want to jump in a little more here, too. Because a lot of this does change. I mean, we are very lucky to work where we work because at BioWare, we have a history from way back before Patrick and I even started working there of an environment that supported that kind of exploration. And so that has remained consistent throughout the time—what, fifteen years?

PATRICK: Yep, fifteen years in March.

KARIN: And so you have to have that kind of buy-in from the people who are providing the money, who are allowing you to make this game. Important when it's sort of expected that we will work together to keep being more inclusive.

And it is sometimes smaller steps. And so, you know, we'll try this—we'll try, first, a bi romance, then we'll do a gay romance. Then we'll do a couple of gay romances, and it builds and builds. And there's a lot of responsibility in that...

Krem is one of the best characters in Dragon Age, and I suspect that
many, many people would romance him next game if given the chance.

So, for instance, working on a Krem romance or a trans romance... none of the writers are trans. And so that comes with a responsibility of doing it right. 

And that's the good thing about that environment of inclusivity—that you want to represent characters in the right way, and it involves great care. And understanding that even if you do have friends or fellow staff members who are trans, their experiences won't be universal—the experiences of everyone. Understanding this, it will still be challenging and frustrating to make a character that is going to be satisfyingly representative of people. 

And so unfortunately, at this point, it does require some extra work. So we'll do our best to put in the extra work and then like Patrick said, the gay romance—the first time the gay romance happened, it was "Oh my God, it's a gay romance!" but now it's just expected.

Mmhmm.

KARIN: So it's one of those little steps to open the doors and keep things moving, and making sure that we don't rest on those laurels and keep moving forward.

PATRICK: The one that we are hesitant on is poly. 

Because of the game mechanics, right?

PATRICK and KARIN: Yes.

KARIN: Yep. We've been talking about that for years.

PATRICK: It's not a moral stance, it's not prudishness—it is purely that our romances as they stand are a giant spiderweb of pain that inevitably creates more story-based bugs than any other part of our stories. 

Laughter from everyone. I think even Smokey the Cat laughs.

PATRICK: So, we already have issues like, "Hey, I romanced this person, but I'm getting romanced dialogue from this other person. Or, "Hey, I'm at stage two of this romance that should lock off stage one of this other romance..." I mean, I've told stories about my experiences as a player in Dragon Age Origins, getting Leliana to a point where she was— 

I chuckle because I already know where this is going.

PATRICK: Um, well, actually it was really sad, because first I got Leliana to soulmates—accidentally getting her approval level too high, too fast—passing the romance threshold...

Right... Been there.

PATRICK: So I couldn't romance her. And then I found out that the only legal way for me to start romancing her was to 'neg' her—for instance, saying that being a bard was being a spy and dishonest—that kind of thing, whatever would get the approval lower—to the point where it would get me back down into the dialogue tree where I could start a romance...?

This is so wrong, right?

KARIN: I know!

PATRICK: Yeah, I mean, I was going... "Aw, no, I have to trash talk her?" 

And then I gave Alistair a rose... like a BUDDY... and then Alistair was like, "Hey, thanks, this means a whole lot to me..." and then I walked over to Leliana, who opens with (Orlesian accent) "You are in love weeth Aleestair!"

(Laughter)

PATRICK: And I was like... "Nooooo... noooo... uh-uh..." and my dialogue options were "It's complicated," "I love both of you," "Why do I have to choose?" and meanwhile I'm just looking for the one that says, "Hey, babe, hold on—let me just go break this off. I'll be back in TWO MINUTES..." 

That happened to me with Zevran. And I was like, "I just gotta run across the campsite — I'll be right back, swear!"

PATRICK: So. A poly romance is a romance that, just from a technical standpoint is one that we are hesitant on, because of that kind of stuff. But if we can figure out a way to do that respectfully—without killing ourselves on the fractal spiderweb of scripting pain—that's absolutely something that would be on the table. It's just that that's the only one that we look at and go... "That's not a question of how well could we write this, but of, rather...

Of, "How does that work mechanically?"

PATRICK: Yeah. Of, "Can we make this work in a game that isn't a dating sim?"

(Me, silently and mentally: Dragon Age is TOTALLY a dating sim...)

PATRICK: So, yeah. Trying to make the romances work in the context of a game that is, in theory, mostly about saving the world and having adventures, so... a poly romance would be, just, so big from a scripting standpoint—at least, if handled the way we've handled all of our other romances—

KARIN: I was going to say—and doing it right. Because we could do it, sure, and maybe it would sort of be hasty and weird, and—not—just by nature, not really keep up with it...

PATRICK: Oh, yeah, we could—sure, we could half-ass it, but we probably wouldn't want to do that.

KARIN: Yeah. That would suck.

Right. That makes sense to me. 

And hey—speaking of the different romances, I always assumed that Josie was an ace romance. So I always thought you'd already done the ace romance... 

PATRICK: Well, I think Sylvia Feketekuty, if I remember—I'd have to ask Sylvia to be certain—but if I'm remembering right, she wanted that to be a romance where that interpretation was absolutely valid. And if you wanted to headcanon it, that it had been an intimate romance, then cool... but if you wanted it to be an ace romance, also cool.

KARIN: Yep. And yay! So I'm glad that worked for you.

Yeah, and it's the most adorable thing ever, I mean, come on... it's Josie.

KARIN: Yeah, that was one of my favorite parts of Inquisition... I edited Sylvia's Josephine stuff, and it was just so much fun working on that. 

Well, and the entire duel is just so delightful and funny. And every time, I just love Josie's surprised reaction to the Inky's declaration that they love her, when she's like, "You do?!" She's just so shocked that the Inky loves her that much.

PATRICK: It's that, and her leg going up at the end.

The leg-pop!

(Laughter)

Last year, when Allegra Clarke was taking part in Dragon Age Day, she actually signed a leg-pop photo for charity... 

KARIN: So good!

It was really just as ridiculously adorable as you would think it was.

So I wanted to ask you... moving on, of your work across Dragon Age... what was your favorite moment of failure? Something that didn't work out for you, but that you valued for the experience? 

KARIN: I don't think anyone has ever asked me that. That's a great question.

Thank you!

PATRICK: It's very difficult because I've failed so, so rarely...

Karin laughs.

PATRICK: Wow.

KARIN: I'm sorry—I mean, yes, absolutely.

PATRICK:  Where have I completely fallen flat? Um... I think for me—I would... 

KARIN: Well, first off, hopefully a lot of the big ones don't actually make it into the game... 

PATRICK: Yeah, oh, yeah—sorry...  

KARIN: We call each other out on stuff a LOT.

PATRICK: I was trying to go with stuff that shipped. If we're gonna go with first drafts, where people pulled us back from the brink of disaster, I've got a NUMBER of stories... 

Like?

PATRICK: Like, one of the things that I think might be most instructive, is to talk about the fact that people might give me a compliment where they say, "I could never write Solas, you did such an amazing job," and they're comparing my version of Solas that shipped, to their first draft of something. Which is unfair to themselves.

I don't think I've told it often enough, but the story of my first draft of Solas—the one that got peer-reviewed by all the writers—was that Solas answers every single question with, er, this one thing. 

For example—"Hey, Solas, what do you think about cheese?" Solas: "Oh, the ancient elves LOVED cheese... and specifically, Ghilan'nain preferred more of a gouda... and Andruil liked a nice brie," etc.

And then, like, every time, the Inky would ask next, "Um, Solas, you seem to know a lot about the ancient elves...?" 

And Solas would look shocked and go, "WHAAAAT?"

Laughter from everyone.

PATRICK (still as Solas): "What? What?! Who said anything about ancient elves?! Oh, no, no, no!"

And it was the most shoehorned, all-he-cares-about-is-ancient-elves thing. And then it was more of the same. He'd talk about ancient elves all the time, but anything you'd actually ask him about ancient elves, he'd just say, "What?! Don't be silly!" 

He didn't have the hook of the Fade at that point.

Right.

PATRICK: It took that initial draft to realize, "Well, I guess he probably needs a hook beyond, 'I can't talk to you about ancient elves, which I'm still going to talk to you about all the time.'" 

And so then this meant getting into, "Okay, look, we're gonna make him a Fade Nerd. He's gonna be—at least, until you reach the end of the game, the guy who lucid-dreams, who explores the Fade, can talk about all of the history stuff with that as his plausible deniability. So—that thing he talks about? Instead now it was, "Oh, no, I saw that in the Fade!"

I love that that's his answer for everything. Just in hindsight, that whole, "Oh, yeah, (cough), I saw it in the Fade!"

PATRICK: So that was one example for me. And the Fade aspect—that may have been Jennifer Hepler's suggestion, actually... her suggestion was definitely, "He needs a hook beyond "I can't talk to you about ancient elves..." She was also actually one of eight people probably saying that around the table.

But I do think Jennifer was the one who suggested, "Hey, maybe the Fade..." and I went, "Oh, yeah, yeah—he can talk about the Fade!" Because—in the final version of him that ships in Inquisition, he does care about the Fade. He thinks it's neat; he thinks it's cool. He is absolutely the person who would look into the vast reaches of space and see something that's impossible and go, "That's amazing! Let's get closer and look at it!" 

And so... for me, that was the failure that led to a success.

That's wonderful (and that's also very Doctorish of him). And I like how it ended up because you give us this character who has perhaps the widest view of history that it's possible to imagine, and yet he's still limited and trapped, to a degree, by his own imagination... his whole mission and point of view is so confined and set in stone. 

That's really great to hear. Karin, what about you?

KARIN: So mine are going to be more boring things, because it's more—just, a lot of my work is, you know—the processes and the behind-the-scenes stuff. 

So mine are going to be along the lines of, "Wow, doing this kind of content at this particular time didn't work very well and caused this kind of kerfuffle and stress downstream, so we'll need to do some streamlining..." 

I'm trying to think of anything particular. First, there are always the typos that I let slip... (she chuckles) and then, globally, there are things that I don't think are abject failures, but which are things we try, and then go, "Aw, okay, let's see how we can make that better," like with the Hinterlands, or...

PATRICK: Yeah, like, the Hinterlands... 

I love the Hinterlands. I'm gonna admit that. And like most of us players, I spent a lot of time there!

PATRICK: Or, there are so many times that I remember when insisting that a line couldn't get cut any shorter than it already is, and then the line shifts, and I look at it and go, "Yeah, that could've been cut..."

(Laughter)

I mean, we may not have needed that line at all—much less, the full line... but those are—I mean, I don't even count those as failures, so much as... "I hope I can do better next time..."

KARIN: Yeah, exactly.

So, Patrick... How much time does Solas spend on Netflix... and do he and Cole ever actually watch something together? Or... they've just both already seen everything?

PATRICK (as if this explains everything): Well, they've journeyed deep into the Fade...

I make a frustrated noise, kind of an oof. Cassandra would not be happy with this. Patrick and Karin laugh.

Dammit. Okay, I knew it. I knew I was a goner on that one...

Laughter.

[Squeaks judgmentally]

Moving on (ahem), was there potential that the Nug King would judge us and find us wanting?

KARIN: So that—I worked with Courtney (Woods) on that, and (hesitates) I—I don't think so. I think it was mostly, one of those that happened when people were, um, a little tired, and yeah, due to my memory, I can definitely ask Courtney to correct me on this if I'm not—but I think it was more the fact that he was judging you, period. 

And curiously, in any event—so that it didn't necessarily matter if you failed or not. He was just so unimpressed with you altogether... 

I love it so much. It's kind of wrong how much I love it.

KARIN: It's great. And yeah, we were having entirely too much fun... and that was one of those where we went, "Okay, if we're having this much fun, then hopefully somebody else in the game will enjoy this as much as we are!"

Oh, definitely, they were!

KARIN: Because there's that side where we then have to get everyone else to jump in, and then get art—yes!—and then...

It's wonderful.

I have to bring up something from Trespasser that many of us are still recovering from (I can already tell Patrick is cringing at the prospect of yet another Solas question, so I'm enjoying the moment...), which is...

What happened to my poor beautiful Teagan from Origins? I mean, I can't even... not just outside, but inside!

More general laughter.

KARIN: Um... 

Look. I saved him in Origins every single time. I want you to know, I spent that final battle against the Archdemon in DAO less worried about the fate of the universe than in frantically healing Hot Young Teagan's little butt the entire time... and then... we get to Trespasser... and... it was all for naught. I mean, something happened to that man... 

PATRICK: Well, he went through... a difficult rebuilding period.

(Laughter)

PATRICK: I would say that this time after the war has been different for him than the time during the war...

It was Isolde!

PATRICK: One of my favorites was someone saying, "He looks worse than Loghain, and Loghain is Blighted!" Let's face it... tough but fair.

Yes it is. It's harsh but true... (cries silently)

MEANWHILE... if you could live anywhere in Thedas, where would you live?

PATRICK: I would live in Rivain. Because Rivain is not as hung up on magic, because they have seers who let themselves get possessed... they also have a relatively peaceful relationship with the Qun. And they're kind of a melting pot and multicultural... they're a place where a lot of different cultures come together. And also? Beachfront property.

KARIN: I was just gonna say... if you need further justification, they get to say, "I want to live on the beach."

I'm a sucker for the Storm Coast. With maybe a summer condo in Val Royeaux. How about you, Karin?

KARIN: I was hoping you'd have the option to winter in Rivain...

PATRICK: Cool.

KARIN: ...and I'd hopefully summer somewhere else. Because I grew up in the mountains, so I want to be, like, "I don't want to be in the super-Arctic types of mountains, but somewhere that would be..."

PATRICK: Like, Avvar-like mountains?

KARIN: Kinda?!

PATRICK: Okay.

That's a nice area, actually. (Speaking as someone who would live forever at Skyhold...)

KARIN: Okay, then yeah, let's say that.

PATRICK: So we could do springs and summers in the Frostback Mountains.

KARIN: Perfect. 

And then I was gonna ask, because I always think this is really fun to imagine. So, if you ended up, that you're BEAMED INTO THEDAS as yourself—and the Breach is open, the Conclave is toast, what would be your fate? What would you end up doing?

KARIN: You know, we've actually talked about this...

Knowing that makes me so happy.

PATRICK: I don't know... My initial reaction is to treat this like "What would you do in the zombie apocalypse?" Which is, "Well, I would die on the third day, because they don't have acid reflux medication or inhalers," BUT... since there's magic and stuff...

KARIN: And magic asthma inhalers!

PATRICK (laughing): I mean, am I the Inquisitor, or am I joining the fight or...?

You can be anything you want. You can be the Inquisitor. You can be the person who dies in hour three, you can, you know, be the Divine... it's all good. Anything goes.

KARIN: There's a space between who I would think I would be and who I would like to be or who I would probably be.

Patrick chuckles.

PATRICK: Although I would love to... Yeah, I don't see myself as having the necessary heroic attributes to be the Inquisitor, but, um...

KARIN: I just want to note that as per our earlier conversation, I would be running around whapping people with a really big axe...

Which would be, of course, amazing.

KARIN: And establishing myself as the biggest, most awesome badass ever!

Perfect casting! (Also—why don't I have these fantasies? It's not fair. I'm always, like, the cleric with the Holy Hand Grenade... or the person everyone wants in their party in case bears show up. Oh, and of course, I'm definitely the slow person the bear catches first...).

PATRICK: Still, hmmm... I can see myself joining Charter on Leliana's spy network, maybe?

Oh, that would be fun.

PATRICK: I actually feel like doing the scouting, the actual going around, bringing back information people are using for War Table decisions—it would be fascinating. And that was a part of Inquisition that I really thought was cool, and interesting—part of which is, because of writing Bull, I ended up having to do a little bit of research on espionage and and how all of that stuff works...

That makes sense. Also, I am a total War Table nerd (I would play an entire Thedas War Table DLC). So you'd be your own version of the Ben-Hassrath?

PATRICK (laughs): I mean, not realistically, maybe, but just to figure out which flavor of 'unrealistic' I was doing, right? And I really—I could see doing that. Just going around, traveling, and just bringing back information.

KARIN: Meanwhile, I would honestly be in the USO version of the Inquisition...

That would be so perfect! Especially you being a singer, too!

KARIN: Where I would just be, like perking up the troops and working at a pub or something, and trying to keep everybody fed, and entertained, and feeling like there's something good.

And, like, also, possibly using that as a front for whatever Patrick's doing, or whatever kind of underground moving of information is required. Maybe not actually doing all of that but providing a space where those people are safe.

That's lovely. I'd probably be writing Cabot's biography and helping Josie with PR (cough) propaganda, and, y'know, trying not to die, I think basically.

And of course, gazing adoringly at basically everyone—all of our companions, of course, so... 

Laughter.

KARIN: Oh, please, I would not be cool enough to hang out with any of them.

Oh, please! Karin, you would be singing, drinking, and slinging an ax. Come on! You'd be a Charger in 15.1 seconds tops.

PATRICK: I want to note that joining the intelligence agency means that I'd get to have time at least looking at Leliana...

KARIN just chuckles.

Well, yeah, which is time well spent. She's amazing. She's scary, but she's amazing. I also love her character design across the trilogy. She's stunning in Inquisition (as in Origins) but it's a harder exterior.

PATRICK: Oh, yes.

KARIN: In the game, I always know when she walks by, just from the involuntary shiver.

This! I always headcanon that if there's a chill, my Inky looks up and goes, "Oh, hi, Leliana!" I mean, I love her so much, but she. Is. Terrifying.

KARIN: Yes! Like, okay, byeeee!

Our beautiful, enigmatic, and terrifying spymaster. Her journey from sweet
bard and believer to cold assassin is for me one of the most
heartbreaking in the trilogy.

This. Yeah. But talk about an underrated character, though. Her arc across the trilogy is so good, I think. I mean, we go from this sweetheart with deep faith, who has a dark side, obviously—to the ruthless, hidden person she becomes in Inquisition who is, I think, just so interesting. 

PATRICK: Yeah, Sheryl (Chee) did an amazing job with her, and again, like I said, asking a question each time, in Origins, Sheryl was going—she wanted to challenge herself with, "Okay look, so many times in fantasy games, we make it so that all of the heroes are atheistic or agnostic—and that anyone who believes in the deity or the fantasy world is either insane, or an evil zealot, or something like that... So, is it possible to make someone who is grounded, positive, lovable—but also, a believer in a fantasy game?" 

And that was the task she set for herself. And it worked for me.

Oh, it's gorgeous. Leliana's arc is absolutely one of the richest across the game trilogy or any series.

PATRICK: And then posing herself the challenging question of, "What do I want to say now?" 

See, one of the best things is that Sheryl works within the boundaries of the game, and she'll say, "Okay, well, within the boundaries of the game, the Divine has just died, she was important to Leliana—I want to put Leliana through a crisis of faith. I want to see what that's like. I want to see what happens when you are this incredibly devout person who has actually done a lot of dark stuff in the name of a cause she really believed in, and now she's questioning all of that, questioning that faith. What does that mean?" 

And, like you said—I just think that's a fascinating character arc—and not one that we get to see very often.

Leliana's faith is absolute, as anyone knows who's played
"In Hushed Whispers" in Inquisition.

No. And it's one of the reasons why I'm always telling everyone to choose "In Hushed Whispers" and to support the mages at least once, just because—it's all about Leliana there. All about that final two or three minutes.

Because Leliana, after a year of torture, is unbroken. Her belief is whole, unshaken and shining even when she's been physically destroyed, even when she faces death. It's really all there. That faith is who she is. 

That quest and those final scenes changed my view of her forever, and in the best way. Just the shock for me that, "Wow, there wasn't a moment of hesitation. She really meant all of it!" Her faith was just absolute. It gave her this extra richness for me. She was willing to kill, but just as willing to die. We don't see that very often in that way, and it was beautifully, done, I thought.

KARIN: It really was.

PATRICK: Well, yeah. And that's a great reaction, I can pass that on to Sheryl...

Please do! She did exquisite work with Leliana.

So that's part 3 of 4 of my neverending interview with Patrick and Karin Weekes! Thank you for bearing with me, and I hope you enjoyed it... I'll have the rest posted within the next week (no, really). 

Meanwhile, please stay safe out there, and hope this cheered and inspired you as much as it did me. I'll see you in the Fade!

Soft Retcons and Krogan Valentines... (Dragon Age Day Interview with Patrick and Karin Weekes, Part 2)

As you know, I interviewed the dynamic duo of Patrick Weekes, Lead Writer on the Dragon Age franchise at BioWare, and Karin Weekes, Lead Editor at BioWare, last weekend for Dragon Age Day 2019 (and it was awesome). 

And yes, Dragon Age Day may be over, but thanks to all of the amazing Dragon Age fans and our friends among the talented BioWare directors, editors, developers, writers, artists, voice actors, and more, it was our best year yet, raising $8400 and counting for Able Gamers! (How much do we love you? Count the words on my blog. And they still won't equal a pittance of how much we love everyone who took part.)

And the great news is—we still have items up for auction, and will still be taking donations for an additional week or two, to see if we can meet that $10,000 goal! You can help, by visiting our Tiltify link, or simply by sharing where you can. 

Besides, Dragon Age Day (much like this interview), never really ends. It lives on in our hearts every day. Again, much like this interview.

So onward, Inquisitors, Wardens and Hawkes! Part 1 of the interview is here, and meanwhile, Part 2 of the interview is transcribed below! And I swear to the Creators, you will actually learn things you maybe never knew before... read on.

ANGELA: For each of you, across your Dragon Age work, was there a small inspiration that changed the game or turned into a major character or plot element for you?

PATRICK: Okay, so I don't know if this is the kind of answer that you were going after, but I have never liked doing Codex entries.

(laughs)

What?! As a lore nerd, I love the Codices! I need to weep silently. I'll be back.

KARIN (to Patrick): But you're so prolific at them!

PATRICK: I have to be! Because I get a list assigned to me and they go, "Please fill this," and then I just go, "Fine." 

But what actually sort of turned me around was realizing—having Codex entries go from a thing that reads like a list of begats in the Bible, to being able to go, "Wait, you're telling me I can write anything I want in this Codex entry, I just have to relate it to this statue the player clicked on?" 

And so when I was given the Hinterlands, there are a series of Codex entries about Tyrdda Bright-Axe. And I was talking with the level designer, and said, "Do they need to be anything for you?" and he said, "No, they can kind of be whatever," and I went, "Okay, great." 

KARIN: Can I just jump in here real quick?

PATRICK: Sure!

KARIN: So the Codex entries are the most entertaining things, because usually, the writers start doing those after all the dialogue is done. Which means they're kind of tired and getting punchy, and that is reflected in the verboseness, even if they're not spoken aloud, of the Codices. But yeah, they're usually completely punchy by this point.

PATRICK: Exactly. So at this moment, let's say I was—hmm, so, bored is the wrong word, since we were on deadline and I was working late... But I was going into it with an attitude of not particularly wanting to do it, and then going, "Fine, if I'm in here, I'm going to use my freaking English degree. I am going to do some kind of Old English poem. I'm going to do almost-Beowulf style, except because I'm a tiny bit anal-retentive, and I know that even though I know the Beowulf-style sagas did not have rhyming, as they focused much more on alliteration, today's readers won't get that, so I'm going to do the alliteration, and rhyming. And I'm going to use that to tell a Barbarian Warrior Princess lesbian love story." 

And the fact that I got to do that just kind of turned Codex entries around.

KARIN (laughing): That's all it took!

PATRICK: I was just thinking, "And no one's stopping me, and I can just do this?" 

KARIN: A Beowulf-style lesbian love story. That's all you needed.

I just need to go back and read those in order now immediately. I don't even think I caught some of that storyline originally beyond the ornate structure of the poems. This is great.

You've both talked about team members who have been incredibly helpful and inspiring in the past. So I just wanted to ask, are there any fellow team members you always wanted to call out as deserving of special praise who don't always get it, or who have been your secret weapons, etc.?

KARIN: Oh, there are a lot of people like that. And I mean, I wish there are ways that a lot of people could get...

PATRICK: More spotlight.

KARIN: Yeah, more spotlight.

Right.

PATRICK: I've always been impressed by Sylvia. I worked with Sylvia, on a lot of projects...

KARIN: Sylvia Feketekuty.

PATRICK: And I've watched her go from being (laughs) — Karin is the supervisor of last names — Sylvia does such an incredible job of integrating gameplay with narrative in a way that really inspires me a lot of the time. So beyond Luke and Sheryl. I've also currently been doing a lot of work with Brianne, Brianne Battye...

KARIN (teasing): I'm so proud right now.

PATRICK (laughing): She has a last name! And Brianne—she came on during Mass Effect 3's DLC, and the first thing she got thrown into was the party for the "Citadel" DLC, and then she came over to Inquisition, and watching her write Cullen was just amazing, because she was a new writer, she was figuring stuff out, and she got given one of the romances with the highest pressure on it, because everyone had an opinion about Cullen. There were people who were on record as not caring about the writing or the story who would still come over and go, "Okay, you have to make sure Cullen's romance is hot enough."

And Brianne just shone under that pressure. So again—like Karin said, we work with a team of incredibly talented people.

KARIN: And Mary Kirby just recently—maybe for DAO's tenth anniversary—tweeted the flow chart that she had made to track the Landsmeet, which was one of the things that she worked on. And the fact that she stayed sane throughout that speaks very highly of her fortitude and intelligence and creativity. She also wrote Varric and is responsible for Varric. Which, you know, pulls my heartstrings. 

And just the whole team—honestly, some of the people I would like to call out are the programmers who worked on our tools, because we have this toolset that we write in, and I'm always breaking it, and there's always something wrong, and they are so patient. They figure out how to fix and then maintain this incredibly complex set of needs that we have for all of our tools—and different departments have different toolsets and they all have to work with each other and it's just sort of constant and never-ending, so I'm really really grateful for that.

Karin, you started out as a writer and journalist, then moved into editing. Do you still prefer editing versus writing, and what is there about it that works so well for you?

KARIN: I have a Master's Degree in Journalism, and I discovered when I was engaged in said Master's Degree that I actually like playing with words a lot more than I like being a journalist, per se.

I found that I liked more arts writing. And I had gotten into it because I had wanted to do more writing on behalf of First Nations issues, but then I tended toward less hardcore investigative stuff. And honestly, the thing I enjoyed doing—far and away the most—was when we did headline writing, and my pièce de résistance was about a goat that had gotten on a roof. I ended up writing this amazing pun-tastic thing about that goat on the roof, and that was the thing I was most proud of, of my entire Master Degree experience! (laughs)

But the thing that was so great about journalism and learning to write that way, was that you're trying to make words and sentences and ideas as clear and concise as possible. So that's really good for editing, when every word you write costs something, because it has to be localized, and for the VO it has to be recorded, so the fewer words we can get away with, the better. So it really helped give me an eye for, "What are the superfluous words we can take away and still have it work?" 

Now, for me, editing is like, "What are the pieces of marble we can chip away to reveal the beautiful statue underneath?"

I think some of that has always been innate. My Dad calls my Mom "The Claw" because she always edited everything he wrote. So I inherited my 'claw' abilities directly from my Mom, and you know—I am the kind of person who will correct menus and who will stop and fix signs on various buildings that are incorrectly punctuated. And so a lot of it has just been a really great way for me to get paid for my compulsive behavior.

PATRICK: One of the angriest moments I have ever seen from her about a non-life-threatening issue was a nonprofit poster...

KARIN (laughing): It still makes me so angry!

PATRICK: ...a poster talking about an important and positive social issue with the header, "It's up to you," and the "It's" didn't have an apostrophe.

Oh, no... that's actually painful.

KARIN: It was huge! This huge font, just enormous... "ITS UP TO YOU." I can still see it.

PATRICK: And Karin's like, "Can I just add the apostrophe?" And her rant was amazing. (laughs)

KARIN: But what freaked me out was that this was a place that I worked, and I saw the poster, and told the people who bought it, "You realize this is not correct, right? That it's actually inaccurate?" And the answer I got was, "Oh, the printer said it didn't matter which way it was..."

(Another embarrassingly loud theatrical gasp from me...)

KARIN: And that's when I just about lost my mind. 

Everyone laughs.

KARIN: So things like that really upset me. 

I'm a former editor, and I feel this on a deep level, I want you to know.

KARIN: That, and the Oxford comma—anyone who knows me knows my Oxford comma feelings... 

So there is that. There is something about it for me... I mean, I'm not a 'rules lawyer' in very many ways in my life, but punctuation is one of those things, where I do find it very satisfying to, well, make things like that pretty, and to make sure the sentences read correctly, or to make dialogue (which is not always grammatically correct) read the way it should. 

And at that nonprofit, the other things I learned about included how to do development marketing and marketing writing, which were useful. Ultimately, there are different ways of expressing yourself, and so being able to switch back and forth and make the words appropriate for different situations is something that's really satisfying. 

And it's also pretty cool in getting to work with a writer, and helping them to make the best (she laughs)—oh, that sounds so heartless! In helping them to make the prettiest words they can.

No, but it's like you said... just chipping away, so that it's perfect.

KARIN: Yeah. And I will admit that the thing that I like about editing the least, is that if I do my job well, no one realizes I've done it. So it's really easy to get, um... let's just say that when I sing, I'm a soprano, so I do have a little bit of diva ego that I like to have sometimes, and it can be a little frustrating that the editing part of the work gets overlooked because people don't see it—you know, people don't always see what something looked like before I worked on it. 

So that part isn't fun. But—especially working in a place like I do, with the teamwork and getting to help make these stories come to life and these characters come to life as a collaborative process—that has been really, really good.  

For both of you: How involved have you been when it comes to language in Inquisition? There was so much more Elven and Qunlat in that game, to me. Did you come up with or add any specific terms yourselves?

KARIN: A lot of that was already in place before Origins. Like, there was—I know someone came in to consult and work on the elven language, but that wasn't the final version.

PATRICK: That was the original backbone. But Dave was responsible for most of the Elven, and Mary was responsible for most of the Qunlat. 

So, honestly... I have certainly used it. I would say that whenever I write a follower who comes from a background that has a language as part of their culture, I find a way to use that. I love getting the chance to have Solas speak Elven, I love getting the chance to have a Dalish Inquisitor talk to Solas in Elven... those are moments I just love.

And I love getting to throw things in for Bull and the Qunari language. I am... I would say it's funny because as a wannabe linguist who sometimes makes up languages in my non-work novels, I think the other writers find me either too fussy or too hesitant when it comes to adding new words to our lexicon. I would sometimes pester Luke and say, "Luke, I need a word for this in the Qunari language, but I can't quite find the right thing. Is there a thing you can look up for me?"

And he'd just look at me and go, "Patrick. It's all made up, man. Just put something in there." And I'd be like, "No! I, um—no! I don't think I'm qualified!" And he'd go, "Lead writer, bro!"

(laughter)

So, yes, I will almost always err on trying to combine words to form a new word, or to use something that comes with a basis rather than pull something out of thin air. I actually think other writers are actually a bit better at that than I am. But that said, I do use the foreign languages more often than a lot of the other writers. Solas used a lot of Elven.

He really did!

KARIN: And I mean, it's per character too. A lot of characters won't need to use a different language. I think my part of it is just trying to make sure we wrote it all down somewhere, and to make sure that we could remember what it was we said before.

PATRICK: We also have a Wiki—one of the few areas in which I think our internal documentation is more complete than what fans have put together, because fans will do astonishingly detailed write-ups of some of our plots, and there will be times when I'll look at them and go, "Well, that's better than what we have on the internal Wiki, because what we have on the internal wiki was our first draft—and there were things that changed right before ship that we never bothered to update the documentation on. 

But we do have a list of, "Okay, here's our Qunari page, here's our Elven page, here are the raw words, here's (roughly) what the grammar should be like... here are some example sentences that we have used for stuff." So yes, I do get the chance to add things to those pages.

KARIN: So can I go back and add one thing that this reminded me of? 

Of course!

KARIN:  Talking about editing, the other unsung hero I wanted to call out is my editing cohort Ryan Cormier, who is so good at managing this kind of thing, as when we do something and he'll go, "Hey, Patrick made up a word, let's write it down."

He's just so much better at that than I am, and when there are new phrases or new things, he is just so good about documenting each of them, and putting each item in places where people can see it, and he's so good at also reminding people that it exists. He is just prodigiously great at doing that.

The thing I was curious about on the language front has to do with the fact that, Patrick, specifically, you are writing for two characters who are oftentimes speaking in riddles, as well as speaking in layers. And Solas and Bull both do this, so I had a lot of fun trying to decipher what might be deliberate, or... 

I mean, Patrick, like... when Solas speaks Elven, because it's more of a cipher, there are so many ways you can interpret even one small phrase or sentence in Elven... 

PATRICK (happily): Mmm-hmm.

(Ha! HERE is the Patrick who put so many of us in Solavellan Hell. He just sounds... so... freaking... HAPPY.)

(CURSES.) 

OUTWARDLY: (unconvincingly) Um, it's really cool!

(We all laugh. I laugh too. Sort of.)

PATRICK: Well, it's really fun. And yes, there are times when we put something in like that and go, "Oh, fans are going to have a lot of feelings about this. Fans are going to have a lot of opinions about what the Great Nightmare is saying—

(Me, basically shrieking) THANK YOU! Right there. That's it!

Patrick and Karin laugh out loud. Like, full-on, and it's wonderful if slightly embarrassing.

Shit. I'm so sorry. Go on! I didn't mean... 

PATRICK (with disgusting calm): ...and I feel very proud that I know canonically exactly what that phrase is.

ME (MENTALLY): OF COURSE YOU DO.

PATRICK:  And... anyway (casually), did you have any other questions?

(Everyone laughs again, and I deserve it.)

I'll be all right. I just need a minute...

OKAY! So... as a proud lore nerd, I love the Dragon Age Codices and I know how many fans do too. Can you tell me about the people involved in creating the amazing Codex entries?

PATRICK: Well, it's mostly... it's all the writers and the editors.

Oops. I—did not know that!

PATRICK: Oh, okay, sorry... No, it is.

KARIN: Yeah, so it's all the writers...

PATRICK: It's the writers and the editors. So every writer... wait, Karin can explain first...

KARIN: Wait, no, really... I was... (laughs)

PATRICK (laughs with her): Yes, go ahead... 

KARIN: Well, so one of the things editors do is to help to wrangle all of this beforehand. And so, everyone else that works in different parts of the game will say, "Oh, we made this new feature! We made this new tree, we made this new thing. So, new objects and things like that, so, we will record those places, and say, "Here's all the stuff that we need Codex entries written about." 

And then the writers will look at that list and then take those and go.

PATRICK: It's not just Codex entries, but every non-VO-text part of the games—so that's the Codices, the journals, the ability strings, the notes—all of those. 

And every writer essentially pulls double-duty on that stuff, and so all the writers will write some combination of quest, follower, advisors, role-playing plots in the wilderness, as needed. And then we all kind of wear different hats, and journals were Ben Gelinas's and I was just so grateful it wasn't me. 

Because on Mass Effect, I was Journal Guy. And can I just say? No one should be Journal Guy.

KARIN: Journals are just particularly tricky because they touch so many parts of the game, so, you know, it's not just the words, in fact, it's probably less the words than other things and if they're displaying in the right places, and if the information's right, and if the gameplay changes and something switches... so they're just very complicated to keep track of. 

PATRICK (laughing): Yes, they are. 

So they are difficult to script, but the good news is, they're also difficult to write!  

(laughter)

It's a team effort!

PATRICK: Yes. So... Ben did journals, and if I'm remembering right, everyone also did some combination of War Table stuff?

(Here, I restrain myself from derailing this, since I love the War Table. Don't get me started.)

PATRICK (continuing): On Inquisition, I did the ability strings, which is why the Double Daggers talent tree is written in iambic pentameter...

I did not know that.

KARIN: So, ultimately, it can also depend on who's got the time...

PATRICK: In fairness, Cameron Harris did dare me...

KARIN: Cameron's another one of our awesome editor heroes...

That's wonderful! Um...

PATRICK: Oh, sorry, please go on.

Oh, no, sorry, I was just gonna make more happy noises. 

(laughter)

But! I did want to ask... from the beginning, in each chapter of the Dragon Age trilogy, we've seen a widening and more complex exploration of the Qunari culture. So first we get Sten, and then we get the Arishok in Dragon Age II (who needs to call me, by the way), and then we have of course my darling Iron Bull in Inquisition.

And it's... to me, in each case, it feels like you were presenting us with a sort of subtle expansion of our awareness of what this culture really is. And how did The Iron Bull fit into that for you guys?

It's just... he's such a paradox, I think, in some ways.

PATRICK: Well, um, because I was on a tiny bit of Origins, and then did not come back until Inquisition, while I would love to be able to say that we had a complete, coherent, master plan for how everything was going to go—um, the truth is, with each of these games, we put these things out, and we swing for the fences, and we see what people latch onto and what they're interested in, and where we can go, "Okay, that part, people didn't really respond to, so we can just sort of leave that one off by the side of the road..." Or, meanwhile, "There's this thing people really want more of, so let's do more of this."

And so from an out-of-game standpoint, the Qun in Dragon Age: Inquisition is definitely a little different from Dragon Age: Origins. I'm fairly certain that when Sten adamantly declares that the female Warden is actually male because she fights (and therefore she must be male)... Bull's perspective is rather, "I have changed what the Qun means for that."

And so the heart of that is just because Origins came out in 2010, right?

KARIN: 2009.

PATRICK: Oops, late 2009. Hey, sorry, like... dates are hard... 

KARIN (snickering): It's the whole tenth anniversary thing. 

PATRICK (laughing): Exactly. It's that whole tenth anniversary thing, man, yeah.

But that was definitely a big question for a lot of people, that difference between Sten's definition of the Aqun-Athlok and Bull's. Especially because it has such significance for Krem, from Inquisition.

PATRICK: So for me, what I mean on this is... Out of game? Yes, we are changing things. And part of the reason we're changing things is because we want to be more inclusive. 

And another part of the reason we're changing things is because we're looking at the Qun at this point and going, "If it's literally nothing but what Sten has said, that's very limiting in the stories we can tell that involve the Qun."

KARIN: And some of it too, again, is documenting all this stuff back in Origins. David Gaider put a lot of effort into worldbuilding, years of worldbuilding. So it's like some of the building blocks are there—enough detail that we know what the world is, but not so much detail that we're written too far into any corners or anything.

So part of the fun with that, in addition to seeing what people like to do with those pieces, and seeing what interests us, is that there's still a whole huge map left—places we haven't explored yet. So in addition to the idea that obviously, there are real-world things, and real-world topics that we want to address in the games (and that changes as time passes), that can also get meshed in with "Hey, what haven't we done yet?"

PATRICK: So when I was talking earlier, just to be clear, that was the out-of-game, behind the curtain view, peeking in at the writers' room and what we're looking at in those moments... and going, "Okay, I think they need to be a little more like this." 

Yes, as Karin said, we have tried to take pains not to write ourselves completely into corners. So that when we need to do things that are either a soft retcon or an addition of nuance where people had not necessarily felt there was nuance to be added, we can do things, like, we can say, "Okay, yes, Sten was telling the truth as he saw it, but Sten is a soldier. If you ask a soldier who is going off into a foreign country to explain his culture —specifically, a soldier trained from childhood to be a soldier, and taught only the things a soldier needs to know—he's going to have a very specific viewpoint."

Agreed.

But if you ask a member of the Ben-Hassrath—specifically, one tasked with anti-terrorist activity in a foreign country, and who has been trained both in deception and in understanding foreign viewpoints so that he can learn to read signals and figure out who's lying and who's secretly working for the enemy, he's going to have a far different perspective and be able to explain with more nuance. He'll be able to say, "Okay, yes, the Qun by the rules as written says this. But here's how we interpret that so we can actually live as a functional society." 

That's where we're able to make changes behind the scenes and go, "Yes, the Qun in Dragon Age: Origins was a little bit monolithic, and that does kind of make them into the Borg... but if you want to have a conversation with the Borg, you need to look elsewhere, and have it with a Seven of Nine type of character. 

Someone outside the Collective.

PATRICK: A character who has broken out. Because you can't have a conversation with the Borg themselves, because they're just gonna assimilate ya... So we needed to paint them with a few more shades of grey, to the Grey People, and that's where Iron Bull was able to come in and give a new perspective. And I think you can see that kind of progression with the Arishok as well. The Arishok was absolutely a true believer, but was a general, rather than a foot soldier. 

Right, definitely. (Mentally: And also hotter than summer in the Forbidden Oasis...)

Patrick: And he has more of a big-picture view. And while he is not a member of the priesthood like the Ben-Hassrath, he is able to put more things into words and to discuss the philosophy a little bit more fluently than Sten was.

It worked out so seamlessly. Because, like you say, the limitations of Sten's viewpoint can be explained by his status and his place in the world, and in his understanding of his own culture. There's something very naive about Sten in a great way. And then you go on to the Arishok, who is more traveled... and it progresses wonderfully on to Bull, who is of course very comfortable anywhere in the world, it seems so...

KARIN: And going back to Codex entries, that's a thing that I think is particularly fun, because they are very purposefully written, most of them, from someone's particular viewpoint. So it is the truth of the viewpoint of that person. They believe they are telling the truth. 

But they are a person with their own experiences, dependent on how they were raised and who they interacted with, and so... that's one of the things I love best about building a game, the whole franchise... 

For me, it's coming at things from that viewpoint: "Is this real? Is this true?" Well, it sort of depends on who you're asking.

And I'm finding that more and more relevant in the real world, as time goes by. 

Definitely.

KARIN: And it's been very interesting to explore that.

Karin, are the Qunari still your favorite race in Thedas when it comes to your Inquisitors?

KARIN: Yes! I am... okay, not the tallest person in the world, and I very openly and lovingly embrace my short-person syndrome when it comes to games. You were talking about how you loved going into the tavern on a Friday and just listening to some stuff... well, my Friday evening blowing off steam is me joyfully hitting something with an ax.

(laughter)

I honestly think that's healthier!

KARIN: The very first time I played Origins, I played as a dwarf, because it was the first time I'd ever seen a character model that kind of looked like who I was. And that was really fun.

But, yes, kind of my gaming fantasy is to be a big, tall person with big muscles who whaps on things that need whapping, and so, yes... 

So melee is your favorite fighting style, still, as well? Just going in with an ax?

PATRICK (laughing): Oh, here we go... give her a hammer or an ax and she is a happy girl.

I can't do it! I'm so bad at melee!

KARIN: Oh, I could tell you a few stories about my non-platonic life partner... (laughs) 

But here's a story. After Mass Effect 3 came out and multiplayer was going, I really really wanted a Krogan warlord character to play with.

And, well, and I couldn't get it, and I couldn't get it, and I couldn't get it. And then someone came home for lunch and grinded until they got a Krogan warlord... and then gave that to me for Valentine's Day.

PATRICK: On her account!

KARIN: On my account! For Valentine's Day. So that is love. Right there.

Aw, man...

KARIN: It was amazing. I just cheerfully beat the living crap out of things for hours. It was so good.

Well, and Krogans. I love them.

KARIN: So yes, I am a fan of the Qunari Inquisitors!

So, Patrick, I have to ask. So in that infamous moment if Bull is Qun-loyal in the DLC "Trespasser"—when Bull says, unforgettably, "Nothing personal, bas." Why doesn't Bull call the Inquisitor 'Basalit-an?' Why just 'Bas?'

For those reading, for full disclosure—this was my number one question, and Patrick and I had chatted about it a bit earlier when I was working on fixing my audio (sadly, nothing was fixed and that's why this is a transcription!). But, Patrick, what you said was really interesting.

PATRICK: Ha, 'interesting' in the way that is probably going to get me hate mail...

No! ("Dear Internet, Please do not send Patrick hate mail over this...")

PATRICK: The real answer is... um... 

(They pause, and I can tell they're trying to distill their earlier answer.)

I'm gonna cut to the chase on your answer. Because it hurts more, right?

PATRICK: Yes. The real answer is exactly that. And the dirty secret is part of what we talked about... like, how much of this is master-planned, and how much of this is by the seat of our pants, and... the reality is... until "Trespasser," I had my strong feelings about people who sacrificed the Chargers, but we did not know there was going to be a Qunari plot until "Trespasser." 

And then that came, and we said, "So, well, how's this going to work with Bull, and how's he still going to be able to do anything if he's still a loyal member of the Qunari?" 

And then we worked that out, and well... here's the thing: We didn't have him trade on the plans until we all looked at it and went, "Well, there's only one answer. He has to turn on you. He's a member of the Qun. And you made a choice that kept him loyal to the Qun."

So... I had me picking the main boss for you...

Right.

PATRICK: And what he called you was a complete coincidence... until the moment when I saw that mission specifically, where you're attacking the Ben-Hassrath stronghold. That was Mary Kirby's, and she went through that, and I saw the moment where, if I changed it and did a voice pass, I would have him say, "Nothing personal, Boss."

And then I looked at it and went, "Oh. Bas." Because that will not only hurt the player deeply in the moment...

And oh, it did.

PATRICK: ...but it will also make them wonder if he's been calling them bas all the entire time in your relationship!

Yes!

PATRICK: And I thought, "Oh my God, that is the most hurtful thing I could possibly do right there!" 

And yet anyone who encounters that moment absolutely has earned that moment by making that choice with respect to the Chargers. 

Yes, they did. And I mean, I've done it too—I wanted to play all the options for analysis purposes, because Bull's one of my favorite characters, and I wanted to understand both sides. And I had always saved the Chargers, because of course—they're wonderful and beautiful and precious as his found family. 

But playing through and saving the Dreadnought, and even the way Freddie plays him after that! It broke my heart. Even just through the end of Inquisition... now, my friend (and Dragon Age Day Founder) Teresa swears that Freddie is saying 'bas,' not 'Boss,' ever after that moment in that playthrough... 

Patrick and Karin both laugh mysteriously but don't comment.

Which I think is genius because it's not something I picked up on.

Patrick chuckles again. Darn it!

The Qun-loyal choice is so heartbreaking to play, especially in hindsight, because even in the romance, he's a much colder character. You really see the precipice that he's been walking along. And we just... we didn't catch it at the time, because it's Bull, and he's so lovable and funny and charming... until he's not.

Sorry. I'm still not okay.

(More laughter from the heartless Weekeses here...)

PATRICK: Just remember, you're only not okay if you made that choice. And while all choices are valid, and we definitely don't play favorites with respect to which ones are good or bad...

KARIN: We do have a shortlist of choices, that if you made them, we probably can't be friends...

PATRICK: Certain choices have consequences!

Absolutely. I support that completely.

Meanwhile, Karin, I know you're a musician and a singer. I wanted to ask you what some of your favorite musical moments in the games are, for you...

KARIN: One thing I was thinking about when we were talking about Patrick's love for poetry and musicality in the dialogue, is that we actually met in University, in a singing group.

PATRICK: A community service singing group.

KARIN: Yeah, and we learned these standards, and then we'd go on the weekends and sing at nursing homes. So that was our first initial way of bonding, over music and singing. And then we realized we both liked music and the rhythm of words and poetry too. Music is something that's fun for us. And makes us incredibly harsh about lyrics not sticking to the right cadence! (laughs) It's not okay. 

So... in terms of the music in the games, well, obviously "The Dawn Will Come..."

Of course, right?

KARIN:  It's absolutely one of my favorites. And what was super-cool about that was that (and Patrick will have to correct my failing memory if I get this wrong) the melody was already written, and David was putting the lyrics together for that. He was trying to write the lyrics to fit with the melody... is that right?

PATRICK: Yep. Yep, that's right. And he called...

KARIN: And he called Patrick and me in because he knew we were into musicals and music and things, and so we got to help him kind of talk through the lyrics for "The Dawn Will Come," so that was really exciting... it was very generous of Dave to let us take part in that.

You get to feel like Sondheim for a brief, shining moment!

KARIN: There was that, and then because I work with the VO team, I get to see little peeks here and there of things happening, and so as the voice actors were putting that scene where everyone's singing together, I remember talking with Caroline Livingstone and our team, and going, "Who can sing? Who can sing?" And we tossed it to them, going, "Who can carry off a solo?"

And so just watching and hearing that all come together. That, to me, is one of the most representative ways of how being on a team with so many people focused on the same thing comes together so well. The setting, the light, the camp, the choreography, the cinematic design, the music—it just all came together so well. 

And it's so cool, and I still get goosebumps.

Oh, me too.

KARIN: Also, a thing that has tickled me is how much that moment has affected other people—finding things on YouTube, and finding people who've done recordings of it, and more.

PATRICK: And again, to echo kind of what we said earlier, it was a year and a half before ship, and we didn't know...

KARIN: Yeah!

PATRICK: There are times when we're just swinging for the fences, going, "Okay, some people are going to think this is the dumbest thing ever, they're gonna think it's corny..."

KARIN: That it's gonna be super cheesy!

PATRICK: But we just have to believe that the people who get to this part in the game are people who have played enough that they love these characters, that they're attached, that they just got through the assault on Haven, that they are emotionally vulnerable, that they are ready for that moment, and that—not everyone—but enough people, will really be touched by that moment to make it worth it. 

And, you know, that's one where I feel—for Dave, and for Karin, and for everyone who was part of that scene, I feel like it paid off.

KARIN: Not everyone does love it, and some people think it's cheesy, but when you love musicals, people will sometimes think the things that you love are cheesy! (laughs) 

But that did come together in a very cool way.

That was the moment when I went from, "I really love this game," to falling absolutely flat, and going, "Okay, I will let this consume my soul." I was just gobsmacked that everyone started singing. I was, like, "Is this real? It's too perfect!"

KARIN: And that's a thing that we've talked about a lot. Especially, you know, being a singer, I'll have people go, "Oh, I don't want to sing with you, because, you know, you'll hear me, and I can't sing, and it's terrible..." 

And that always breaks my heart, because  singing is the oldest form of music. And people have sung culturally for thousands of years. And in places like that, people would sing for harvests, and sing at ceremonies, and sing when babies were born, or at funerals... and would sing when they were working, to keep to the rhythm of the work and to keep themselves going... 

And that kind of singing felt so appropriate to do right there. And Dave was thinking that this would be... almost a hymn. With that spiritual aspect of, "When things are bad, we'll sing this song to lift ourselves up." So it's kind of going back to that kind of community singing and community spirit that comes from a bunch of people singing together.

The very first choir I was ever in, my director used to say, "The cool thing about choirs is that the total sound can actually be greater than the sum of the parts." And I feel like that's kind of true, especially in that setting, when people come together, and it's definitely in the "how you sing"—in the physicality of how you sing, and the spirit that you put into it that makes it what it is.

I really get that. I was a formal voice student in college—completely mediocre, wasn't gonna change the world—so I picked up the cello instead. And I'm a really bad cellist, by the way! But I will always love singing.

KARIN: No, see, here we go! You're doing that thing you shouldn't do! Did you enjoy it?

I did! 

PATRICK: My gallows humor favorite part of the music is, every time in any one of our games that I want to have someone sing, like when I want the Chargers to do a tavern song...

KARIN: Yes!

PATRICK: I have to come in and do a take doing the tavern song myself.

KARIN: Yes.

PATRICK: And... I do not have a fantastic voice. I have an acceptable voice.

KARIN: You have a fine voice. You have a very good natural voice.

All this while, I'm basically listening to this like that famous Jeremy Renner GIF, chin on hands, grinning.

PATRICK: It's not trained.

KARIN: But you have a lovely tone!

PATRICK: Yes, but every time... the VO people say, "Okay, Patrick, in order for them to know what kind of mood you're going for, you need to come in and do a take." And then they never delete it.

Oh, no! But wait... that's great... right?

KARIN: I did that for "The Dawn Will Come."

PATRICK: Yeah. But people don't play your "The Dawn Will Come" as blackmail.

So it's just out there. Somewhere.

Oof.

PATRICK: Yeah. It's sitting on a few people's hard drives. If I ever get too full of myself... 

Everyone laughs.

So what's interesting about "The Dawn Will Come" to me is that—Karin, you mentioned that the choices were all who could sing, basically. But it's also interesting because that scene is so Chantry-forward? It's all the believers. And I loved that.

Especially because it brings me to my favorite Solas expression in the entire game—him looking at this with that face—you know the one...

PATRICK: Yep.

... and he's just going, "What is going on?"

KARIN: And he's not quite getting it and not really understanding that thing we were talking about, that community, and what's happening there.

Yeah. 

KARIN: And another shout-out to the cinematic folks for that. 

And it is so well-done, and it is so beautiful. I love all the direction and the facial expressions. I love that there's that pause that just lets everyone be tired and sad and wounded there.

KARIN: Yeah. And you know, the tavern songs were fun too. They were a little in-game complicated, but it was fun helping to put those together just in terms of writing out all the lyrics and stuff.

(Here, a cat in the Weekes household begins meowing VERY loudly, and it is adorable.)

And the tavern songs are so lovely. And they're so immersive!

KARIN: I mean, it's a pub! Of course you're going to have people singing! I love that.

And that's such a big part of the worldbuilding. That's why I go back and play the game. Sometimes I'm going back to throw fireballs (if I'm in that kind of mood) but other times I'm going back to listen to Maryden sing, or go replay some dialogue. It feels like we're going away somewhere, in a great way.

KARIN: Yay! That's what we wanted.

Everyone laughs.

Thanks for reading, everyone! And please stay tuned for more from Patrick and Karin in Part 3 of the interview, to follow soon—in which we meet Ashy the cat, and in which Patrick may or may not divulge a few secrets about death... in the Fade!